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Author Topic: Who and why we believe?  (Read 6877 times)
TommyShi
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« on: July 02, 2005, 06:39:20 AM »

"Gurus" and non-"gurus" are constantly making interesting quotes about one thing or another.

Robert Kiyosaki says studying will not help in entrepreneurship (or rather..."becoming rich"), Buffett says speculating in financial instrument is a one way trip to the poor house. This person says X, that person says Y.

Most people will lap these up as truths. But why? Well, because the speakers are either more well known, many times richer or much more popular than we are. They had to be correct, if not, at least trustable no? Trump didn't get to his billions without substance, what he says should at least have some truth in it, right?

Maybe by examining the past words of social elites we might stubble upon an answer...

Lord Kelvin
President, Royal Society, 1895
"Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible."

Thomas Watson
Chairman of IBM, 1943
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."

Ken Olsen
President, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corporation, 1977
"There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their home."

Western Union internal memo
1876
"The telephone has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us."

Marshal Ferdinand Foch
French Commander of Allied Forces, WWI
"Airplanes are interesting toys but of no military value."

David Sarnoff's associates
Response to his urging for investments in radio, 1920s
"The wireless music box has no imaginable commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"

New York Times
Editorial about Robert Goddard's revolutionary rocket work. 1921
"Professor Goddard does not know the relation between action and reaction and the need to have something better than a vacuum against which to react. He seem to lack the basic knowledge ladled out daily in high schools."

Harry M. Warner
Warner Brothers, 1927
"Who the hell wants to hear actors talk?"

Charles H.Duell
Commissionar U.S. office of Patents, 1899
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."

*Some say Charles never spoke those words but it was the general sentiment back then in 1899 that "everything" has been invented...much like today!
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resurrector
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« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2005, 02:28:08 AM »

evil you are too involved to the dark side of the force.

hehe
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Taymastery
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« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2005, 07:14:23 AM »

- delete
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TommyShi
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« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2005, 11:08:23 AM »

Quote from: Taymastery
"...it's not that you're skeptical... YOU ARE GUTLESS! What guts does it take for you to say you're skeptical? What risks are you taking then?" - Anthony Robbins (not a Guru but a Life Coach) :X


Thats a nice sounding quote. I bet the quotes i posted sounded nice too to the people back then. Smiley

Quote from: Taymastery

BTW Tommyshi, I chanced among a study by Dr Richard Bandler and John Dilts and in their research that said that there are only 2 kinds of behavioural traits people can have or possess.

No. 1, There is the MATCHERS
They see things as it is and are always looking towards congruency.  

No. 2, There is the MIS-MISMATCHERS
They see difference in everything and how it won't work out.

Guess what? You fit exactly as a MIS-MATCHER. So don't waste your time by trying to convince yourself how gurus teachings don't work. The fact is that you are a MIS-MATCHER. Just accept it. But if you wanna change, guess what? Seek a gurus help!!

 cheesy


didn't you always promote the "there is no right no wrong" and "there is no one solution that fits all people" line of reasoning? but here you are trying to categories people in two groups. lol.

according to the field of psychology there are 5 personality traits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_five_personality_traits

Quote from: Taymastery

So don't waste your time by trying to convince yourself how gurus teachings don't work. The fact is that you are a MIS-MATCHER. Just accept it. But if you wanna change, guess what? Seek a gurus help!!


Me and the people I know are successful today because we know and avoided the teachings of charlatans. So why should we change and give up our success?

I'm trying to spread success + happiness the only way I know: revealing the secrets of success! Cheesy

Quote from: resurrector
evil you are too involved to the dark side of the force.

hehe


The Dark side of the Force is the pathway to many abilities which some might consider....unnatural.  evil
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Taymastery
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« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2005, 02:17:07 PM »

--delete
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TommyShi
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« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2005, 03:05:11 PM »

Quote from: Taymastery

It's a fact!

So can I say that there is no right or wrong as to whether you are a MALE or FEMALE? So are you saying that there is no right or wrong as to whether Tommyshi is a MALE or FEMALE? So are you saying that there is no right or wrong as to whether Tommyshi is a human being or an alien? lbo (laughing blood out)


Thanks for giving me something to post when senso forumer try to worm his way out using the "no right no wrong" argument. Smiley

So you also agree there is a yes and no regarding whether the teachings of Adam Khoo, Clemen Chiang, Tony Buzan or Robert Kiysoaki works or not?

And after giving u the wrong fact that we only use 10% of our brain and that his teachings can help u use more %, you still choose to think Tony Buzan's teachings work?

Quote from: Taymastery

BTW this MATCHER/MIS-MATCHER thing is discovered in the science of Neuro-Linguistics Programming or NLP.

Believe it or not, go onto any search engine look for 'NLP'. Challenge me to myth against it

Or read Unlimited Power (Rapport) by Tony Robbins

For I guess you rather not do it, why? Fact is you are a mismatcher!


Hmmm...i think u are the one who need to do some research on "NLP". Heres a convinent little page with lots of referral links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming

You might find out that NLP isn't even mainstream psychology nor is it scientifically proven.  Funny why u choose to pay them money without doing any due dilligence on ur own. huh

Quote from: Taymastery

I won't waste my time trying to gap up what you are mismatching!

NO OFFENCE MEANT IN THIS ENTIRE POST
THIS WILL BE MY LAST POST IN REGARDS TO "FIGHTING THE TRUTH" BEHIND GURUS' TEACHINGS


Hmmm...this isn't even about gurus. i think u getting too sensitive lol. this is about rich and powerful or influential people making dumb statements in history. it'll be interesting to see which great and correct sounding quote today will become the dumb statement of tomorrow.
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Taymastery
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« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2005, 04:06:13 PM »

:X

I leave you with last words

Whatever you say... I got the results before and have empowered others to achieve similar results... I don't see why we shouldn't believe in it...

I hope you don't take my earlier comment seriously!

 cheesy
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TommyShi
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« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2005, 04:13:50 AM »

Quote from: Taymastery
:X

I leave you with last words

Whatever you say... I got the results before and have empowered others to achieve similar results... I don't see why we shouldn't believe in it...


Regardless of how much hype "gurus" generates, what I know is this: I got success by hardwork and not paying gurus. And I have and will continue to empower others to achieve success by seeing thru charlatans.

So many others have succeeded when they're willing to put in hard work and stop looking for "get rich quick" or "get successful quick" shortcuts, I don't see why we shouldn't do the same!

Quote from: Taymastery


I hope you don't take my earlier comment seriously!

 cheesy


oh don't worry. i never took gurus or their blind worshippers seriously.

LOL
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singasoft
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« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2005, 06:16:00 AM »

IMHO, it's a waste of money paying such a high price to listen to those so called "gurus"...

Most of real successful people did not success because of they listened to what gurus said, but because they listened to themselves and learned from their surroundings...Many of those guru teachings in fact can be learned without paying a single cent, i.e from people/events arround us (if our mind are open enough to listen attentively to what a cleaner got to say)

I'm not saying what those gurus said are wrong, I'm saying there are many much cheaper to learn those stuffs....
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dusun
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« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2005, 04:37:21 PM »

Unfortunately most of the local self-style own named "gurus" are blowing a full bucket of hot-air, more hype than truth. More misleading people than empowering people.

The worst thing is most kids, and young adults are poisoned by them, going for an elusive "dream"
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singasoft
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« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2005, 01:31:04 AM »

Then, I think we should start advocating to people arround us, with whatever means we have, to stop those poor kids from wasting their monies or their parent's monies Smiley
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TommyShi
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« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2005, 02:56:52 PM »

Quote from: Taymastery

So can I say that there is no right or wrong as to whether you are a MALE or FEMALE? So are you saying that there is no right or wrong as to whether Tommyshi is a MALE or FEMALE? So are you saying that there is no right or wrong as to whether Tommyshi is a human being or an alien? lbo (laughing blood out)


While a lot of things have a "right" or "wrong", a lot of things doesn't. Its funny u are against this concept of fuzziness since your favourite guru Tony Buzan used it to support his "10% brain" theory which has been proven wrong by neuro scientists a long time ago.

Do you know that the word "Male" and "Female" itself is relative? If the person who invented it switch the meanings then we'll be calling guys "female" today. Do you know there are people with no gender or both? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersexual)
Likewise to an alien, Tommyshi would be an alien. By human standards, Tommyshi would be a human being. So IS Tommyshi and alien or human?

Quote from: Taymastery

BTW Tommyshi, I chanced among a study by Dr Richard Bandler and John Dilts and in their research that said that there are only 2 kinds of behavioural traits people can have or possess.

No. 1, There is the MATCHERS
They see things as it is and are always looking towards congruency.  

No. 2, There is the MIS-MISMATCHERS
They see difference in everything and how it won't work out.

Guess what? You fit exactly as a MIS-MATCHER. So don't waste your time by trying to convince yourself how gurus teachings don't work. The fact is that you are a MIS-MATCHER. Just accept it. But if you wanna change, guess what? Seek a gurus help!!


Same reasoning...how exactly do u classifly "matchers" and "mis-mismatchers"? What if this person look "towards congruency" 50% of the time and see how it won't work out the other 50% of the time?

Your guru might tell you "well, if he look towards congruency most of the time then he is a matcher". But what exactly does "most" mean? Does 51% count? What about 60% of the time?

Then what about people with no opinion? They don't look twards congruency nor do they bother to see how it won't work out? People who are neutral? What if they're neutral 30% of the time and not during the other 70%?

For matchers, they "see things as it is". What if the thing in question is a scam? By seeing it as a scam they "see things as it is" yet by admitting that it is a scam they "see how it won't work out". So what do they fall under?

How do they know for sure "mis-matchers" are not better off? Did they do a study on the success rate of "matchers" and "mis-matchers"? What are the stats like?

Ultimately the important question here is: Did you bother to find out? Did you bother to actually READ their "research" or you just happily pay up?
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TommyShi
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« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2005, 03:25:03 PM »

Quote from: dusun
Unfortunately most of the local self-style own named "gurus" are blowing a full bucket of hot-air, more hype than truth. More misleading people than empowering people.

The worst thing is most kids, and young adults are poisoned by them, going for an elusive "dream"


Ah its nice to hear voices of reason once in a while on this forum, which are otherwise dominated by guru supporters.

Quote from: singasoft
Then, I think we should start advocating to people arround us, with whatever means we have, to stop those poor kids from wasting their monies or their parent's monies Smiley


I have been trying to by convince tay here that his gurus are ripping him off. After posting so much link to research materials proving that his gurus are feeding him lies...he still choose to stick to them.

Its a pity really, seeing a motivated youth such as him being barred from achieving success by a wall of mercenary gurus. At 14yrs old now if he is willing to put his feet on the ground work hard at business or trading, he has a whole 6 years to go on before hitting 20. SIX years!! Imagine what you can do. Too bad the lure of instant success is to tempting...

But even working adults have been tricked into paying up. I know a lot of working adults, including people who started their own business (successful or not I know not) who stand by their "gurus".
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Taymastery
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« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2005, 04:39:26 PM »

LOL. Coming to think of it, I only attended 1 training programme in my whole entire life - Adam Khoo's.

(After that, all I did was coach for AK and did massive readup on personal development... other than that, I attended small cheap-skate seminars which I initially thought was good but it sucked!)

Quote
And it was truly the best... we cried like crazy on 2nd Day when Adam shouted at us and told us that we were born champions... remembered the sound of 'pppiangg !!' when AK threw the glass and it shattered... he then said something about how every piece of glass reflects the importance of every atom of unity within our family ties... he made us reflect on what nasty things we said to our parents (was guilty at that time...coz I shouted and argued with my mum few hrs before. LOL)

There was this girl who did absolutely nothing since 1st Day of camp. When AK started with the 'siao-ing', she cried and knelt down. Apologising (to God? Hahah) Didn't expect AK to be so unsympathetic as to tell her straight he hated her crying (I think AK sent her home later, coz I don't remember seeing her)

3rd Day was the best!! We screwed each other. There was this guy who was somehow aloof since 1st Day. AK pushed and pushes him. He still refuse to say a single thing. AK proceeded to splash a glass of water at him - hoping he would retaliate. Stupidly, he didn't. AK invited all of us up on stage to screw this damn guy. Yeah, there was this particular ang-moh who spreaded the 'disease' - becoz of his slang, he kept on 'F-king' him in every sentence. And everyone started following.


I don't know about you. But maybe because of this powerful experience that I saw a GURU as a COACH. Therefore, it all lies in whether you have the guts to invest in a COACH or by your judgement if you think the coach  is credible!

BTW Tommyshi, look up on DR GEORGI LOZANOV. He is a professor specializing on the relation of medicine and education cum the founder of accelerated learning. Without him, no Buzan, no AK!
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Taymastery
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« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2005, 04:50:08 PM »

Quote
I have been trying to by convince tay here that his gurus are ripping him off. After posting so much link to research materials proving that his gurus are feeding him lies...he still choose to stick to them.

Its a pity really, seeing a motivated youth such as him being barred from achieving success by a wall of mercenary gurus. At 14yrs old now if he is willing to put his feet on the ground work hard at business or trading, he has a whole 6 years to go on before hitting 20. SIX years!! Imagine what you can do. Too bad the lure of instant success is to tempting...

But even working adults have been tricked into paying up. I know a lot of working adults, including people who started their own business (successful or not I know not) who stand by their "gurus".


It would really help if you could change the word GURU to COACH.

Haha, Tommyshi, in fact it is the other way round. After attending such stuffs, I actually leverage on their materials to achieve results!

There are truly, good coaches out there. But there are also ones who are out there to make you bleed money out of your nose

As for Tony Buzan stuff, yes I agree to your findings. But I can't help not using Mind Map. I am stuck with it. It has helped me get my A's. Maybe you have a better solution?  rolleyes
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