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lapcoat
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« on: November 24, 2005, 12:19:04 PM »

Hi recently one of my fren had been asking me to this investment talk
related to land banking in UK.

I was thinking of doing some background checks before i head down.
However, i am at a lost. So anyone can give me your advice?


 smiley
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mudnik
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« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2005, 01:20:28 PM »

Hi, there had been some threads discussing about this topic before. You can do a forum search.
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Nicholas Chan
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« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2005, 05:02:28 PM »

This is the thread dedicated to landbanking.

http://www.projectsenso.com/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-t-168.html
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"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke
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vision3001
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« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2005, 01:13:40 PM »

Hi LC,

To date, I know of 3 land banking companies in Singapore: Berkshirereits (CA), Profitable Plots (UK), Walton (CA).

I know of at least one trustworthy person in this forum who is into PP, perhaps he will share further with you on PP.

There are several info relating to PP on the internet, perhaps you can start the due diligence and share with us what you find.

You may find this useful
Code:
PROFITABLE PLOTS PTE. LTD.

DATE OF CHANGE OF NAME:  -

REG NO: 200502453D          DATE OF REG: 24.02.2005

TYPE OF COMPANY         : LIMITED EXEMPT PRIVATE COMPANY

REGISTERED OFFICE ADDRESS
    180 CECIL STREET
    #17-02
    BANGKOK BANK BUILDING
    SINGAPORE (069546)

DATE OF CHANGE OF ADDRESS: 24.02.2005

PRINCIPAL ACTIVITY(IES):
=======================
1) ACQUISITION AND RE-SALE OF LAND AND PROPERTY (70101)
2) WHOLESALE ON A FEE OR CONTRACT BASIS (EG COMMISSION AGENCIES) (50100)

STATUS        : LIVE COMPANY
EFFECTIVE DATE: 24.02.2005

                            AMOUNT        V/SHARE   CURRENCY
                            ------        -------   --------
AUTHORISED CAPITAL:         5,000,000.00     1.0000 SINGAPORE DOLLAR
ISSUED ORDINARY   :                 2.00     1.0000 SINGAPORE DOLLAR
PAID-UP ORDINARY  :                 2.00     1.0000 SINGAPORE DOLLAR

CHARGE(S): NIL
=========

AUDITOR:  
=======

OFFICER(S):
==========
:
:


Quote from: lapcoat
Hi recently one of my fren had been asking me to this investment talk
related to land banking in UK.

I was thinking of doing some background checks before i head down.
However, i am at a lost. So anyone can give me your advice?


 smiley
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mickarchie
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« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2006, 08:26:10 PM »

Sorry for the late reply.  If u have not bought from them, dont buy.  If u have, then pls pls call me urgently.  They are selling lands that can be of great concern.  

Call me at 94792361
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vision3001
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« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2006, 10:09:51 AM »

Quote from: mickarchie
Sorry for the late reply.  If u have not bought from them, dont buy.  If u have, then pls pls call me urgently.  They are selling lands that can be of great concern.  

Call me at 94792361


Could you drop me a pte msg to highlight what concern would that be? I hope you are not from W or B.
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MoneyElite.com
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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2006, 04:35:57 PM »

Sorry for the late reply.  If u have not bought from them, dont buy.  If u have, then pls pls call me urgently.  They are selling lands that can be of great concern. 

Call me at 94792361

Why not inform us here? Nothing to hide right.

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qpqp
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« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2010, 10:46:54 AM »

Having dealt with them before, my personal advice is NOT TO HAVE ANY DEALINGS WITH THE PROFITABLE GROUP! I have had some "investments" with them since 2007, and although the first plot made a little bit of profit, the second plot I bought and sold (supposedly at a profit), has not been paid out to me yet, since signing of the documents almost NINE MONTHS AGO! NOT A SINGLE CENT!

I have been chasing them for payment constantly, and they make promises which they do not fulfil (e.g. payment dates, promises to call etc), and the staff are not honest to me (e.g. you call and ask for person A, one person will tell you he's on holiday, the next will tell you he's engaged in the office and the 3rd person will say he's not in the building).

It's got to a point where I have sent a demand letter via registered mail threatening legal action, failing which I will start suing them and file a report with the police. That's my experience with them, so my advice is to stay away and save yourselves the hassle. I have also contacted SPRING SINGAPORE which administers the Singapore Quality Class logo (which they use shamelessly in all their emails), and they have told me there are others with complaints about them too.

Further Reading
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2009/feb/21/capital-letters
http://www.ripoffreport.com/Investment-Brokers/Profitable-Group-Pro/profitable-group-profitable-798aa.htm
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jp69
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« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2010, 05:06:01 AM »

I would echo the same concerns as qpqp. There are many pieces to the equation and the land plot company never tells you about more than one - the highly inflated future sale price.

The land plot company will try and convince you otherwise but the way the UK land plot companies make their money is by selling land to you. The huge increase in the value of this land has already taken place. It comes from people like you being willing to buy a normally useless land plot  for a  highly inflated price.  Once the realisation kicks in that this land has no realistic chance of planning permission the market price will drop like a stone as people either unload it or abandon it.

If you dont believe this here are some key questions to ask.
1: What is the true value of the item  you are buying today ?  A better way to express this is if you had to sell it on the open market today or in 2 years time  what price would you get for it if the value event expressed in item 3 below does not happen.   

2: What purchase price are you paying - is it reasonable against the current true value ?

3: What event apart from time is going to increase the value of this item. (value event).   Time increases in land value generally macth inflation without any other event.

4: What are the chances of the value event occuring and when is it expected to occur.

5: What will the net new value of the item be in real terms ( including inflation and currency changes and selling expenses) if the value event does occur. How does that new value compare with the current purchase price and current true value.

6: What happenes if the company you are buying from no longer exists when you want to sell your land ?

Apart from information provided by the UK land plot vendors  and their agents the general consensus on their UK land plot investments is that they are highly overpriced against current true value. Also the chances of a positive value event occuring are very low. This is why they are able to buy the land so cheaply. The chances of it occurring are estimated here as lower than the least likely bet on Roulette.

There is  an  example given on Profitable Group concorde village site.  A concorde village plot had a value of around S$800   (350 UKP) in 2006 when it was purchased by Profitable Plots.   Current selling price without any change in curcumstances is around S$19000  (UKP 8000). All conversions at 2010 currency rates. 

Profitable claim in their 2008 TV advertising that this land will obtain 250% returns (S$46,000 ) by 2011.

There are numerous sources suggesting otherwise.
The UK Local Government Authority has made some very clear statements here. The UK press has commented - examples are here and here. Even the Singapore press has commented here.
 
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jp69
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« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2010, 04:54:15 PM »

Profitable Group  are on the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) Investor Alert List.

You can see here under "T" not "P"

The Investor Alert List
   
From time to time, MAS receives information on persons who are possibly conducting activities regulated by MAS without authorisation.

Consumers should exercise care when dealing with these persons. Overseas consumers who receive solicitations by persons who claim to have an operation in Singapore should also exercise care and check if they are in fact dealing with persons who are regulated by MAS.

Below is a list of persons, on whom MAS has received information, who are not authorised by MAS in respect of the carrying on of regulated activities.

http://www.moneysense.gov.sg/check_our_list/Consumer_Portal_IAL.html#t
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